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Unworked Q not show as worked if QSY
KA1J
#1 Posted : Sunday, October 25, 2015 8:59:31 AM(UTC)
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Hi Dennis,

My database keeps getting corrupted by having a call present in the call window that I did not work, but with a click on the spot log and that call still in the data field and it's logged as a completed Q, showing as worked and listed as that time & date. Doesn't matter if I type in a call of a station I am trying to work or click from the spot log to get the call in there, whatever call is in the call sign entry field gets logged as worked if I click on a spot.

Last night I worked 3B8/DJ7RJ on 30M. I saw them in the spot log later on 160 and clicked on it. I didn't work them and went to bed after not hearing them. I left Logic running so the Spot log would be current when I got to the radio in the morning. I came downstairs to try for the V73D and clicked on the spot log and logged the 3B8/DJ7RJ while bringing up that V73D spot.

This kind of scenario happens all too much. It's my not erasing every unworked entry from the data entry fields before entering a new spot that causes the issue, I get that, but that's not the way I find it most efficient and intuitive to work within the log. Having to remember to be sure the call field is empty before QSYing via a click in spot log is another step and another inadvertent chance for error. Also, Sometimes I enter a call just to get a beam heading in hopes to hear/work the station and after however long, if I don't work him and without erasing that call, click on another spot, I've corrupted my database and don't even know it.

I have it set that pressing enter officially logs that Q and then opens the call field to be ready for the next Q, I'd like to have it so that is the ONLY way a call gets logged as worked. Is there a setting that will prevent a Q from being logged unless the Enter key is hit to officially log the Q?

Thanks!

73,
Gary
KA1J
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WN4AZY
#2 Posted : Monday, October 26, 2015 9:09:25 AM(UTC)
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Hi Gary:

Good to hear from you.

You are supposed to have to double-click the spot to get it to log (or click the LOG button). See the text when you hover over the LOG button.

Are you sure you aren't double-clicking?

Tnx & 73,

Dennis WN4AZY
KA1J
#3 Posted : Monday, October 26, 2015 9:56:37 AM(UTC)
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Good Morning Dennis,

I have to double click on a spot for the radio to shift to that frequency. If I single click it will show me on the DXCC progress where I stand with that entity and it will also show beam headings on the info window but without the radio QSYing to that frequency, I won't know if I can hear them. So the double click is the only way to do it all efficiently.

As things go, I usually don't get them right away and unless I remember to clear the call field before clicking on another spot or close down Logic, that Q shows as worked. The double clicking on a spot forcing that Q to be logged really throws me off, certainly not every time but the way it goes with pileups, QRX from DX, calls from SWMBO & so on, I can forget if I worked that call in front of me the next day or not & it causes me logging and spotting errors I can not possibly unravel.

If there were an option say in the general field in the main setup, for instance the location where you choose to have {Enter} either open a browse window or, add a new QSO; it would be wonderful to have an additional option that hitting enter is the only way to log a new QSO, that would let me double click to direct the radio and not put it in queue for being logged. That would be perfect for the way I go about getting my fills from the Spot log.



BTW, it's perfect for Fall in New England, here today. A perfect mix of fall colors, green and bright sunshine.

73,

Gary
WN4AZY
#4 Posted : Monday, October 26, 2015 11:21:39 AM(UTC)
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Ok, the way to do this is to click the Set Rig button, then Click the Log button (or double-click) if you really want to log him.

If you log him and change your mind, you can click Undo (or type {esc}) BEFORE you save the QSO. But the way LOGic is configured by default, it will save if you naviage to another QSO or log another QSO.

You can turn off this auto-saving feature in tools/options. There is an option CONFIRM SAVING NEW RECORDS. Checkmark it.

Tnx & 73,

Dennis
KA1J
#5 Posted : Monday, October 26, 2015 6:34:25 PM(UTC)
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Hi Dennis,

I just tried this and I find it much too unwieldy to be efficient, it requires too many button pushes, making it too much like "make work" and that is the last thing you want when you are looking for efficiency.

If you can simply click on a spot in the spot log and have it do everything except log the Q for you and only log when you hit enter, you have the maximum efficiency which to me, is what computer logging is supposed to be.

To have a setting that allows you to only log a Q when you press enter makes it straightforward and with the least keystrokes. When you're chasing DX or completing a needed fill, the last thing you need are extra keystrokes or mouse clicks to make and log the Q. To be able to click and chose among the options showing in the spot log should be a one click matter. To log them should only be a one press event {Enter}. Being able to click on all the needed q's showing in the spot log to check out all the possibilities should not entail a mandated saving of records every time you click on a new spot unless you erase all the data in the logging screen.

At least that is how I see efficiency to explore what's spotted on the bands; the most minimal of actions to check out a possible Q and with a one press {Enter} intent to save.

And FWIW, say you do not have a spot to click and came across a pileup. If you enter their call in the call window and then don't work them, if you inadvertently click on a spot, you have logged a Q you never made. Again, the function of hitting enter being the only way to log a Q as completed makes sense for accuracy and flexibility. Having an option to select to do exactly this will speed up operations while reducing error.

73,

Gary
WN4AZY
#6 Posted : Monday, October 26, 2015 9:46:02 PM(UTC)
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Quote:
I just tried this and I find it much too unwieldy to be efficient, it requires too many button pushes, making it too much like "make work" and that is the last thing you want when you are looking for efficiency.


It's just

Step 1: double-click in the spot log to set the rig and enter the Q in the log.

Step 2: Press {Enter}or type Y or click OK to confirm saving when the Save dialog appears, or click No or type N to discard.

You've got two actions you want to happen -- logging the QSO, and then either saving it or discarding it. Two things. So you'll have to do two things to LOGic to accomplish these two tasks.

Anyway, sorry, I just don't follow. Please tell me Step 1, Step 2 what you envision.

Tnx & 73,

Dennis WN4AZY

The leaves have started to turn a bit here, have had to run the heat a few nights, but have the windows open some nights.
KA1J
#7 Posted : Tuesday, October 27, 2015 11:59:22 AM(UTC)
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Hi Dennis,

Thanks for the interest so I'll try to explain with a couple "for instances" as to how I operate with the K3 and Logic. Understanding my goals may help. I'm primarily a DXer, looking for a new one. Next on the list is filling different modes and bands. I've been into RTTY recently and just made the 100+ contacts using the K3 and MMTTY.

So here's a step by step process of how I use Logic & the K3:

I left Logic running over night so I will have a full and current spot log when I go to the radio in the morning. I look at the spots and see a new one is posted, a 4X and it's new for me on 10M CW. I want to go to that frequency 28.0321 and see if I hear them. I double click on that spot and that brings the call onto the main log. I now see them and their pileup on the P3 but instead of being at 28.0321, they are actually transmitting at 28.0391. I tune the K3 to the proper frequency and go split because of the pileup. I try for 10 minutes and can't reach them. But if I had, I would have hit tab to scroll down to change any info in the field and hit enter to log them.

But since I didn't work them, they don't belong in my log. Seeing as I had double clicked in the optimistic hope to work the 4X I now want to check out an OD on RTTY on 15M. If I simply double click on the OD, I will have logged the 4X inadvertently so I really needed to hit escape to clear the fields. Now I double click on the OD spot and am ready to work this one. I have their call in the ready to fill in RST and maybe to enter R in the QSL request section. However, I don't get him either and go run an errand. I get back 5 hours later, see the spots and want a YB so I double click on it without first looking at the + sign at the bottom of the main log, to see if the earlier Q was logged or not. If I click on a new spot, I now inadvertently logged the OD I hadn't worked. I look at the OD call later and have to try and remember if I worked him or not.

So... to me, the advantage of the double click is to make the logging screen alive for whatever call I select in the spot log and to move the radio to the proper location. If I want to check out all the different needed spots, I do so with the hopes I can quickly make a Q and then move on to the next, without having to think about undoing the logging screen because I didn't make a Q.

I want to have the speed of double clicking on a spot (A single click on the spot log would be even more expeditious), having Logic ready for me, setting the K3 to the frequency/mode and then me hitting {Enter} to log a worked Q and then... keep trying to make contacts as rapidly as possible being my goal. If I double click on a spot, it makes Logic ready and readies the radio but if I fail to make the Q, I want to be able to double click on the next spot, and the next spot, the next 10 spots... rapidly if I choose, and not log any unworked Qs. To me, this would be the most efficient way to use Logic and the spot feature. Logging only if I hit {Enter} and if I don't, nothing gets logged, regardless of what else I've clicked or done in the logging fields.

"Set Rig": If I were to use the "set rig" to move the radio around it will move the radio but to use the set rig, I will have to first go to the spot, single click on it, move the mouse up to "Set rig", manually adjust the radio for the proper frequency for the spot. When I choose to log, I have to click on + or press Ctrl+N, to make the logging screen active, type in their call and hit tab to get to RST and finally {Enter}. If after using set rig, I instead double click on the spot to make the entry fields active, it will change the frequency to whatever the spot was posted at, not what I found them to be at. If I want to fill in anything actually during the Q, I have to have the data entry fields active so I have to do all the above or it won't log properly. It's a lot of steps and inconvenient if it's a busy day on the air, especially if I'm filling in lots of info at the same time or using MMTTY with the scope for RTTY.

So in summation: Double clicking on a spot does everything I need to have me ready to log and I want that readiness every time I click on a spot. I want to be able to click on as many spots as I wish and not log a single thing unless I hit {Enter} after working somebody and then that makes the Q officially logged. That is to me, efficient and secure in that I only log what is intended to be logged. Same goes if I type in a call I hear, try to work them and leave to come back later and try again but find they are gone, I don't want logging errors because their call was still in the logging screen and I hadn't removed it when I left and then clicked on a new spot, which will log that unworked Q.

That is why I would like to have an option in setup that allows the user to select "Log only if {Enter} is pressed". That would remove any ambiguity of if a station was really worked or accidentally logged. More, it would speed up the process of checking out spots rapidly and being ready to make a Q and log with the most minimal effort in the logging program.

73,

Gary
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WN4AZY on 10/28/2015(UTC)
WN4AZY
#8 Posted : Wednesday, October 28, 2015 8:12:43 AM(UTC)
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Ok, so you're basically saying you want to have any number of unsaved QSOs in the log. You have the 4X in the log, but haven't worked him yet, and may never work him. You now put OD in the log, and may or may not actually work him before you go on to put someone else in the log.... Sooner or later you'll go back and either save or delete each of these QSOs. Is that correct?

Makes sense, just not sure how the best way to implement it from an engineering or user interface standpoint.

Thanks,

Dennis
KA1J
#9 Posted : Wednesday, October 28, 2015 12:32:07 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: WN4AZY Go to Quoted Post
Ok, so you're basically saying you want to have any number of unsaved QSOs in the log. You have the 4X in the log, but haven't worked him yet, and may never work him. You now put OD in the log, and may or may not actually work him before you go on to put someone else in the log.... Sooner or later you'll go back and either save or delete each of these QSOs. Is that correct?

Makes sense, just not sure how the best way to implement it from an engineering or user interface standpoint.

Thanks,

Dennis


Hi Dennis,

No, what I'm trying to say is the only QSO I want to ever be placed in the log is one where I have hit enter to save it. In the example above, the 4X is on deck, I haven't worked him but he is the one I am seeking so he is all but logged, I have not yet contacted him. I have not hit enter which will place him in my log as a true contact so to me, even though his call is in the call field, he's nothing in any way official until I hit enter.

In the example above, I want to now put my attention to the OD; let's say the 4X isn't working NA now so I want to click on the OD in the spot log as I need him on that band and I need to have all traces of the 4X removed from any part of the log because I didn't work him. To be expeditious and not have to go back to the log to highlight the log screen to make that window active, and then hit the {Esc} or move the mouse to the log and click on that button and then go back to the spot logging window to hit the OD (now that the 4X has been cleared) and try to work the OD.

To avoid all those extra steps, I don't want to have to go back and clear the add screen every time I click on a spot. The max efficiency to me is to be able to click ad nauseum on the spot screen without each click logging a Q and when I finally do work someone, I hit enter to officially log them and then go back to pecking away ad lib at the spot screen for the next Q.

Likewise, say I hear a P5 and I type that call in the log field. If I don't work him and plan to come back later and work him when his signal is stronger but when I come back I never hear him again but instead click on a spot, I don't want to log that P5 whose call was still in the call field. I only want to log that P5 after I actually work him, by hitting {Enter}.

I don't know programming to save my life but what I am imagining needs to be done is when a new spot is hit, it engages the {Esc} function before it does any other action. If a call had been saved before, the hitting {Esc} would not affect the database and for an unsaved call from earlier, it would erase that call and all associated with it.

So no, I wouldn't want to go back later and remove QSOs I never made. I would like to see an option to select that would allow me to click freely on the spot log without ever worrying I was logging a Q I didn't make and not having to go to the log screen and click on "Undo changes" or tap escape. To me those are added steps I don't want to make in the heat of the hunt and if I don't do those steps correctly 100% of the time, I'll keep making accidental entries in my log.

73,

Gary
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