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User-Defined Fields Setup
IK0CHU
#1 Posted : Saturday, January 28, 2012 8:23:57 PM(UTC)
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Hello Dennis,
a request for practical approach for the management of advanced LOG FORM.
In logic9 can I increase the number of User-Defined Fields?
I finished the 20 fields that Logic provides.
I want to add some Italian awards as DCI, DMI, and other variables without deleting the existing.
Thanks
73's de IKØCHU
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WN4AZY
#2 Posted : Saturday, January 28, 2012 9:16:55 PM(UTC)
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No, sorry, there is still a limit of 20 per log form.

But you can start a different log form and put 20 different fields on that. Are a lot of your 20 fields devoted to a particular mode of operating, such as VHF/UHF? If so, a second log form field would be ideal. You can have them both open at once, each associated with a different radio.

Tnx &73,

Dennis WN4AZY
IK0CHU
#3 Posted : Saturday, January 28, 2012 11:04:42 PM(UTC)
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Hi Dennis,
I opened the second window logmain at startup and I changed some fields to have 20 fields in the first window and 5 fields in the second. When I search a record in my archive in the first window does not change the same record in the second logform. Windows are two distinct, separate and unrelated. The second is not the extension of the main. Can the user choose the linkage between the two windows? It would be interesting to avoid in the future to add more than 20 existing fields. Thank you for your cooperation in responding to our questions.
73's de IKØCHU
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IKØCHU Mauro
WN4AZY
#4 Posted : Monday, January 30, 2012 8:58:00 PM(UTC)
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No, they both go to the same database. I log a QSO in one window. I make sure it is written to disk by clicking the SAVE button. It does not appear in the other log window until I make the other window active. THEN it shows.

I can log several QSOs in log form one, and log form 2 browse will update when I activate that window. I can activate the main or browse window -- no difference -- they both update.

Tnx & 73,

Dennis WN4AZY
vk4iu
#5 Posted : Wednesday, February 22, 2012 11:00:27 PM(UTC)
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G'Day IK0CHU,

I too reached the limit of "user fields" when there was only 10 of them per log form.

I am intersted to understand how you have overcome the limit of 254 characters to contain all the user fields for any one QSO - the limit of the userfields field in the log.

I quickly reached this limit with only 10 fields.

Your data must be very short to fit more than 20 data items in any one QSO userfields Log field - given the standard use for CQ Zone, ITU Zone, Continent, County, STX, email, LAT, LONG etc etc.

I solved my problems by creating LOGFORMs for each DXCC entity. I have many user fields defined, many more than 20, but any one QSO only uses a few of them - those relevant for that DXCC entity, and I rarely reach the limit of 20 per LOGFORM. The limit of 254 characters lead to me abandoning recording fields and data for equipment used, solar data etc etc for every QSO.

So far, I mainly run contests, so any issues with my technique while working DX in real time have yet to surface. I import my ADIF contest logs, populate some userfields during the import, and populate the other user fields from the QSL information as I receive it.

I would appreciate understanding your data and the techniques you use.

Peter VK4IU
Peter VK4IU
You can help by posting images of any errors and including your Logic version.
IK0CHU
#6 Posted : Thursday, February 23, 2012 11:59:29 AM(UTC)
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Hi Peter,
I support the exchange of experiences to enable us to learn more about our program and understand how you can manage for our needs.
For your information I describe my equipments:
PC - OS Windows XP Service Pack3, Dual monitor;
Software - Logic 9.0.37, DX Atlas 2.25;
Digital Device - MOXA Multiport RS232 x 10, RIGblaster pro CI-V, ICOM CT-17;
Equipment - IC-7600, IC-756PROIII, IC-7000, IC-910H, IC-2820 x 2, IC-92E;
At present the IC-910H and IC-756PROIII only are linked to the software.
I asked Dennis if it was possible to increase the number of userfields because I like to have all data in the same form and gave me the solution to use other new fields.
I created a second form equal to the mainform and I changed some fields taking out others. In fact the solution works. The only problem I still have not solved the fact of having the second form on the desktop at the restart, at least on Windows XP. On my Sony Vaio laptop with windows 7 windows work fine.
For now I send you two screenshots with notes on some questions Y've done, then I think it is appropriate to exchange ideas one step at a time until it is resolved. Also I have a lot of puzzlement about how to operate but with patience I try to do test after test to arrive at a solution.
So I look forward to your specific requests and sorry for my English. Have patience.
73's de IKØCHU Mauro
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IKØCHU Mauro
WN4AZY
#7 Posted : Thursday, February 23, 2012 7:19:09 PM(UTC)
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There is a 254-character field that holds user-defined data. You can view this actual data with the USERFIELDS log form.

This is independent of the 20 user-defined fields per log form (the limit is 20, not 10). Making more log forms will let you have an infinite number of different user-defined fields, but has no relation to the 254-character limit per QSO.

One little thing you can do i use shorter field names.


Quote:
The only problem I still have not solved the fact of having the second form on the desktop at the restart, at least on Windows XP. On my Sony Vaio laptop with windows 7 windows work fine.

See the attached screen shot
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IK0CHU
#8 Posted : Thursday, February 23, 2012 8:47:43 PM(UTC)
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Hello Dennis
As you can see from my screen shot that i send to Peter VK4IU, I've already planned my logform displaying at the bottom the record of 254 characters because at first I had problems with the imported QSO I had with the HRD. Indeed HRD using very long variable names that did not give more chance to add more data in the QSO. I spent so much time to figure out where the problem was and then I have created to display the record. In fact, the problem still exists for those who, like me, doing contests, and has to import the data into logic. I use writelog and before to import the ADIF file, by hand, I have to rename the variables. For example writelog uses
<EOH>
20090124 120041 <QSO_DATE:8> <TIME_ON:6> <FREQ:6> 14,085 <BAND:3> 20m RTTY <STX:1> 1 <MODE:4>
<CALL:5> RV3ZN
<SRX:3> 001
<APP_WRITELOG_M:1> 1
<APP_WRITELOG_20:1> 1
<APP_WRITELOG_COUNTRY:14> European Russi
<APP_WRITELOG_PREF:2> UA
<EOR>

And I have to rename by hand to fit the variables or the Logic does not update the qso's

<EOH>
20090124 120041 <QSO_DATE:8> <TIME_ON:6> <FREQ:6> 14,085 <BAND:3> 20m RTTY <STX:1> 1 <MODE:4>
<CALL:5> RV3ZN
<SRX:3> 001
<M:1> 1
<20:1> 1
<COUNTRY:15> European Russia
<DXCC:2> UA
<EOR>

In this way, I'm sure the fields are correct and is occupied less space in the record to 254 characters.

It would be very interesting if during the import logic had the opportunity to associate the variables used by programs such N1MM, WriteLog, WinTest, QarTest with those of logic. It 's always been on the wish list. In fact it is too useful for those who contest and would save a lot of time.
Since they are in the topic I wanted to ask why the program when using real-time update the fields as CQZ, ITUZ, PFX, etc. and when using the ADIF import these controls are not available? In fact you must always resort to manual editing.
To conclude as regards the second logform, I'm sorry, at reboot or running the program at the next time don't remains on the desktop but I should always do the procedure again. As soon as I will prepare and post a small movie and you'll see for yourself so what happens to me. Then I also really checked on Windows 7, I thought that worked but the same thing happens.
Thanks for your patience and courtesy to listen and solve the problems.
73's de IKØCHU Mauro
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IKØCHU Mauro
WN4AZY
#9 Posted : Friday, February 24, 2012 8:11:50 AM(UTC)
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No need to rename ADIF fields in the ADIF file to make them smaller. You can map any ADIF field name to any name in LOGic. Go to tools/log fields....

And no need to import Country. Just hold the mouse on top of the DXCC field in the log form or look at the Info form.

Quote:
Since they are in the topic I wanted to ask why the program when using real-time update the fields as CQZ, ITUZ, PFX, etc. and when using the ADIF import these controls are not available? In fact you must always resort to manual editing.


Sorry, I don't understand. Are you saying CQZ is not importing?

Tnx & 73,

DH
IK0CHU
#10 Posted : Sunday, February 26, 2012 10:36:59 AM(UTC)
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ADIF file has been realized to allow to many programs to exchange data between them. Ray and You know it very well ... hi. I have always used WF1B software since I had the amateur radio license and was using DOS.
Starting from this premise, the main thing to capture data all the software must to use the same name for all. There are data that are essential for a QSO.
The developers of modules for the contest programs are using, for personal reasons, different names and often very long to define the data to be registered for the contest.
Who uses the Logic and assumed the filed name with a very short variable, is in difficulty in acquiring the data if at the first don't rename the file to import correctly.
The logic provides in tools \ logfields .... to associate to the name of a field an ADIF name and can be used for import, export or both.

In my logic I have a field named DXCC and the name ADIF associated is DXCC
Everything is perfect if all programs were identical.
But I make an example.
SOFTWARE1
The ADIF files to import it: <DXCC:3> KG4 - Logic captures the data - OK
SOFTWARE2
The ADIF files to import it: <APP_DXCC:3> KG4 - Logic does not capture the data - OK NO
SOFTWARE3
The ADIF files to import it: <DXCC_NAME:3> KG4 - Logic does not capture the data - OK NO

The only way is to rename the file to be imported with the correct data.

If I go to change in tools \ logfield ... the ADIF name it will work the software2 or software3 and not vice versa. Another problem arises if in this case I'm going to do an export operation. I would find a file that is not shared with other programs, except that which uses the specific name.
Dennis, I have tried to make a copy of the same field to change the name in the ADIF, but logic does not allow me to do so.
Can I get a proposal?
Add the ability to put other names of ADIF, besides the principal, for each field in the tools \ logfields ...., which can function only during import and during export only the principal name should be used.
Logic in the process of importing from other programs must process all the names of ADIF which are in the settings and update ever and only DXCC
What do you think?
73’s de IKØCHU Mauro
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IKØCHU Mauro
vk4iu
#11 Posted : Sunday, February 26, 2012 8:37:59 PM(UTC)
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G'Day Mauro,

I run a SO2R SSB/CW/RTTY contest station using Elecraft K3s and MicroHam equipment. I run Logic under Win 7 using triple 19" 1280x1024 monitors configured as ONE wide screen. The contest logging is done using N1MM from which the ADIF log is imported into Logic 8. I am moving to Logic 9. I do all my contest analysis and reporting in Logic. My Logic database QSO count is approaching 20,000.

The maximum number of user fields has been an issue for years. The maximum used to be 10 and is now 20. The limit of 254 characters for all the user data for a QSO will probably never change. The number of defined user fields has always been unlimited, as has the number of log forms.

From what you write and the images, you are doing exactly what I used to do. Recording what radio was used etc. You record how you made the QSOs, recording the data in user fields you define. You record not only that you made a QSO, but how you made the QSO. I also recorded under what conditions - sunspots, Kp, Ap etc, and much data related to QSL - county, shire, parish, lighthouse, provence, JCC, Guns, Prefecture etc etc.

You may already understand some of the things I will list. I do so to make sure we each understand the same things.

I no longer do as much as what I describe below. I still record a lot of user fields for contesting, but I abandoned much of the work several years ago as I simply did not have the time to keep all the data up to date for DXing. Family commitments have often limited the time I can spend on amateur radio. Hopefully those times have passed now I am retired.

One can have a lot of user fields defined - as many as one wants. (Tools, Setup, Log Fields)

There is a limit on the total "text length" of all the user fields used for any ONE QSO - 254 characters. This is the Logic database field called "USERFIELDS" - where the data for the user field is stored. You can display this field with the Log form called USERFIELDS - as your screen shot shows.

All of that has nothing to do with the 20 user fields one can have on a Log form. Each and every log form is LIMITED to the display of 20 user fields. But each Log form can display 20 different user defined fields.

So, if one wants more than 20 fields for a QSO on the screen at any one time, one must use two (or more) Log forms.

But, as you have discovered, there are problems to synchronise the two (or more) forms - keep all the data visible on the screen at the same time. One has to move the form to a new record, click with the mouse. The "browse window" will update, but only if one clicks on the window. Synchronisation of the forms to a databse record, a QSO, does not happen automatically.

This limitation cannot be overcome easily, because of the way the Visual Foxpro database software works, and the way it has all been assembled together by Dennis to form the Logic program. It is a limitation we just have to live with.

So the reality is that, if there are more than 20 items of user data that you want to display at the same time, you have to use separate Log forms.

How can we over come the problems of form synchronisation?

I over came the limitations by realising that my user data was of several distinct types …

- QSO data: mode, DXCC, time, country, IOTA, zone etc etc.
- QSL data: county, state, provence, lighthouse, etc
- Station data: radio, antenna, amplifier etc
- Conditions data: 10cm flux, sunspots, weather etc etc

You may be able to divide up your user data differently.

Also, I realised that one can print an unlimited number of user defined fields in a printed report. In reports there are no limitations.

So we are left with two problems: the limit of 254 characters total, and the fact we cannot display more than 20 user fields on a single form.

The total number of characters for user data for a QSO is 254 - this includes the name of the field and the actual data. For example, for CQZ, that means "| CQZ:25" the separators, the name of the field, and the actual zone - 8 characters. So for any QSO the absolute maximum number of data items (different user fields) one can record for a QSO is 254/5 - that is 50. This assumes ONE character for the name, ONE character for the data, and three characters for the "separators" to manage the data.

This is impossible - few fields would be only ONE character. A more realistic user field length would be 10 to 15 characters. A US County is something like CNTY:MN,OLMSTED - 17 characters!

So we can define 50 or more, but only store 30 or so in the database record, and only display 20 of them on any one Log form. And that assumes the charatcer limits I selected.

My solution …

Each Log form is a separate "window" onto the database. Each moves through the data (the data base records of QSOs) independently. So using lots of forms to scan through the database is easy - one form for the QSOs, one form for a QO and my equipment, another form for the QSO and radio conditions. I rarely needed to look at all the data at one time.

One can use any log form to record a QSO. But, while the update is occurring on one form, the database record is "locked" and cannot be updated in any of the other forms. Any new record will not be seen by the other forms util written to the database. This is normal database behaviour and happens in any database program, not just Logic.

I found big single log forms were a bad idea - too many limitations.

I created smaller, different, Log forms for the different data types, and created many different reports to print the information for QSOs.

For actual on air logging, I created Log forms for different directions. A Log form for JA QSOs (JCC, Prefecture, Guns), another for K QSOs (Country, US State), many to record QSLs for each DXCC, and others for looking at what equipment I used, and radio conditions in what QSOs.

When working DX, or rag chewing, I created several Log forms and carefully chose which 20 (of the 50 or so) user fields I would have on the form. I would use a different form for working DX in different directions. I clearly did not need "US Country" while working EU late at night. Each form had common user-fields for a QSO - IOTA, 1010#, etc and different forms had different unique fields for the specific DX I was working. The log forms included nothing on the form for user fields that I could populate later using the Tools, Advanced, Database Commands tools that Dennis provides.

Using the space created by the multiple display screens, I often had 10 Log forms open at the same time. A form of each type was in view at any one time, with forms of a similar type behind forms of the same type. I use the Window menu to find them. I would often work one station with one form, move the VFO, find different DX, and once I had the call sign, switch to the correct form to log the QSO. After the DX session was over I used other forms to enter data or mass update all the QSOs.

For some fields I only entered data after I got a QSL card. I have different forms for QSLing for different DXCC. And, after QSOs were made, I used Tools, Advanced, Database Commands, Mass Change, Replace User-Defined fields contents to enter data for many QSOs. I used "Change User defined field contents" for things like Radio, 10cmflux, antenna, weather - things that do not change from QSO to QSO over a few hours while working DX or a contest. These fields never appeared on the Dxing forms, only on my "analysis" forms.

Because of limitations on my time, my main activity has been contesting. I use N1MM and import my logs to Logic.

Using Logic, one can import different ADIF named fields moving the data into the Logic fields and user defined fields. One can translate from a external ADIF field name to a different Logic defined name. But, there are limits.

One can have a user field say RX, and import from a field in N1MM called APP_N1MM_RADIO_NR. In Logic8 the external field was limited in length, but I see in Logic9 it is now quite long.

The ADIF import/export limitations can be annoying. I agree, it would be great if we had a "table of relationships" for each field for each program. It would be great if all the logging programs used the same names, but I don't think that will ever happen. We should rejoice that Dennis (with a few others) was the initial creator of ADIF and attempted to address these problems.

If one wants to import ADIF data from several different logging programs - in may case HRD, N1MM, WINTEST, WRITELOG - one needs to carefully edit the ADIF definition in Logic for each import/export. Logic8 was limited in the external name length so I changed to using SED, AWK, PERL to edit the ADIF logs before/after import/export creating a common name which was translated by Logic into the Logic user fields. Much easier, and I have now automated the process and it takes only seconds after every contest for thousands of contest QSOs. This external editing is what you seem to do.

I think the intention was that in each Logging program there was a "translation" table so moving data would be simple. But many programs simply import/export their own name with no translation possible. Logic provides "translation" from one name to another. The limitations you are seeing are actually in the other programs - not Logic.

Logic9 has a much longer field for the external name so, given I mainly use N1MM for contesting, I will be moving to a direct import into Logic9 without the prior editing of the ADIF file. See attached image. But that will mean for an import from WinTest, I need to edit the name relationship in Logic - WinTest has no such "translation" like Logic. The same implies if I need to export ADIF data to other programs. The limitation is in the import of the other program.

Peter VK4IU
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Peter VK4IU
You can help by posting images of any errors and including your Logic version.
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