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Multiple Grid Squares
K6FW
#1 Posted : Wednesday, April 8, 2015 12:52:20 AM(UTC)
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When you work a station that is located on a grid square boundary or intersection you need to be able to enter 2 or 4 grids squares into the log record. How do you enter multiple grid squares into a single log entry? The grid field only seems to accept one grid. Thanks for your help. 73, Frank K6FW

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WN4AZY
#2 Posted : Wednesday, April 8, 2015 8:37:44 AM(UTC)
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You need to enter a QSO record for each grid. This is easy to do -- just right-click the + button to duplicate the current record.

Tnx/73,

DH WH4AZY
K6FW
#3 Posted : Wednesday, April 8, 2015 12:44:08 PM(UTC)
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The problem with this method is LOTW. LOTW only matched with the first record even though the LOTW upload from the other station shows both grids. The other station had one LOTW record upload to cover both grids. My second duplicate log entry did not get an LOTW match. The progress chart only shows one of the two grids as confirmed. If I were to operate on a grid line I would need to upload to LOTW both grids in one record. 73, Frank K6FW
WN4AZY
#4 Posted : Friday, April 10, 2015 11:17:16 AM(UTC)
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This really complicates things -- I wish they hadn't done that. You could theoretically be in two DXCC countries at the same time. Are they going to handle that in one QSO too?

Can you find any documentation on this? I found this, which just mentions a grid square, which apparently comes from the station location.
https://lotw.arrl.org/lo.../UpdatingConfirmations/
And the station location setup only has a place for one gridsquare.

I guess a workaround would be to create a second (third? 4th?) grid square in LOGic as a user-defined field, using whatever field name the ARRL uses. But again, I can't find any documentation on this.

Let me know if you find out anything.

73,

DH
vk4iu
#5 Posted : Friday, April 17, 2015 4:28:08 AM(UTC)
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G'Day,

I don't understand how one can do this - one QSO in more than one place at the same time.

Ignoring for the moment quantum mechanics ... how can the DX operator be in four places at the SAME time?

If one was to make four QSOs, one for each square, the problem solves itself - provided each operator logs four QSOs on LOTW - and assuming the QSOs are separated by at least a minute.

Some time ago I read the LOTW documentation, and was left with the conclusion that LOTW does not use the GRID square in the QSO. LOTW only matches grids based on the STATION LOCATION in TQSL used for the LOTW upload. So the DX operator has to make FOUR LOTW uploads, one for each STATION LOCATION used for the QSOs, and the local operator needs to make ONE upload with four QSOs, each with a different grid for the DX operator, and his normal STATION LOCATION.

Does that sound logical?
Peter VK4IU
You can help by posting images of any errors and including your Logic version.
n8gls
#6 Posted : Friday, April 17, 2015 10:05:23 PM(UTC)
bwilliams

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Peter/Dennis,

TQSL allows for up to four grids to be entered in a Station Location by separating them with a comma and a space, i.e., EN90, EN91, EN92, EN93. The multi-grid operator needs to create a Station Location with those multiple grids before uploading qso's to LoTW.

Only a single qso is logged to get credit for all four grids. The multi-grid operator uploads his logged qso (remember his Station Location defines the four grids) and the other operator uploads his logged qso no different than any other. LoTW looks at both qso's and if a match credits the operator with having worked the four grids as defined in the multi-grid operators Station Location.

This applies ONLY to VHF and up awards!!

So there you have it......chaos! Hi Hi....

73 de Brad, N8GLS
n8gls
#7 Posted : Monday, April 20, 2015 10:14:58 AM(UTC)
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I might add that while this isn't an issue for HF operators, us VHF/UHF and up guys will appreciate a way to handle this. If contesting and working a Rover on a grid corner we need some way for LOGic to handle the "multiple grids to one logged QSO" for scoring. Even if not contesting its still an issue for awards tracking as well as syncing with LoTW.

Peter mentioned the grid field not appearing to be used and in-fact that's correct. ARRL told me this weekend while at a conference that its all driven via the Station Location file of the multi-grid operator.

73, de Brad, N8GLS

K6FW
#8 Posted : Tuesday, April 21, 2015 8:06:53 PM(UTC)
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Dennis,

Can the "Grid" field be modified in a future update to accept 4 grids separated by commas? This would solve the issue for award tracking. Thanks for all the commenters that jumped in and help explain the issue.

73,
Frank
K6FW
WN4AZY
#9 Posted : Wednesday, April 22, 2015 9:21:10 AM(UTC)
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Thanks for the info.

But what do they want the ADIF file to look like? I assume they want it in the GridSquareList field.
see http://adif.org/304/ADIF_304.htm
I wonder how particular they are about spaces and extraneous columns? We could experiment, but it may be easier to call. Let me try that first.

Quote:
This applies ONLY to VHF and up awards!!

And probably only on Tuesday.... Are there any fields other than Grid that could be used this way in VHF/UHF contests?

Tnx/73,

Dennis WN4AZY
n8gls
#10 Posted : Wednesday, April 22, 2015 1:03:19 PM(UTC)
bwilliams

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Dennis,

Ha....don't forget it also depends on the wind direction too....hihi.

Ok, well, I should have tackled the ARRL rep and asked 20 more questions. His exact words were no ADIF fields are used in this process.

Having said that, I looked at the ADIF link you provided and see two fields explicitly for this purpose, MY_VUCC_GRIDS, and VUCC_GRIDS from Section III.C.I-ADIF defined fields.

MY_VUCC_GRIDS: Two or four adjacent Maidenhead grid locators, each four characters long, representing the logging station's grid squares that the contacted station may claim for the ARRL VUCC award program. Entered like EN91, EN90, EN92, EN93. So N8GLS as the logging station operating from a grid corner enters those grids in that field. BUT...I still must submit a Station Location identifying those grids before uploading to LoTW for LoTW to credit the contacted stations qso for all four grids as its only read from the grid square field in that file, not from ADIF (per ARRL).

VUCC_GRIDS: Two or four adjacent Maidenhead grid locators, each four characters long, representing the contacted station's grid squares credited to the QSO for the ARRL VUCC award program. Entered same as above. So N8GLS logging a qso with a station on a grid corner enters here the contacted stations multiple grids. In this instance, the burden is on the contacted station to submit a Station Location identifying those grids in order for N8GLS to get LoTW credit for them.

Maybe a call to them is in order. Thinking out loud, If I'm a rover jumping around to multiple grid corners, I'm gonna have to split up the log when I upload to LoTW cause each grid corner is gonna be a different Station Location....If I work from 4 different grid corners, that's 4 Station Locations. Does that make sense?

Regards,

Brad, N8GLS






K6FW
#11 Posted : Wednesday, April 22, 2015 7:11:31 PM(UTC)
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Dennis,

Below is a download from LOTW for one of my satellite QSOs showing the station WD9EWK was in grid square DM52ax and DM53aa. There are separate lines for each GridSquare. Logic only needs to process these on the download from LOTW and apply to the proper award. If I were operating from multiple grid squares then that is specified in the TQSL program. It is possible to operate from 4 grid squares at once. I would create a new station location and specify all grid squares separated by a comma in the grid field in TQSL. Logic does not need to know that I am operating from multiple grid squares for LOTW upload. Hope this helps.

Thanks,

Frank
K6FW

<APP_LoTW_OWNCALL:4>K6FW
<STATION_CALLSIGN:4>K6FW
<CALL:6>WD9EWK
<BAND:4>70CM
<FREQ:9>436.00000
<MODE:2>FM
<APP_LoTW_MODEGROUP:5>PHONE
<QSO_DATE:8>20150329
<TIME_ON:6>020900
<PROP_MODE:3>SAT
<SAT_NAME:5>SO-50
<QSL_RCVD:1>Y
<QSLRDATE:8>20150329
<DXCC:3>291
<COUNTRY:24>UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
<APP_LoTW_DXCC_ENTITY_STATUS:7>Current
<APP_LoTW_2xQSL:1>Y
<CQZ:1>3
<ITUZ:1>7
<GRIDSQUARE:6>DM52ax
<GRIDSQUARE:6>DM53aa
<STATE:2>AZ
<CNTY:9>AZ,GRAHAM
<eor>
n8gls
#12 Posted : Wednesday, April 22, 2015 8:24:49 PM(UTC)
bwilliams

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Yes,

Agree with K6FW that LOGic doesn't have to know what grids are being operated from. The "capture" of that data in an ADIF format would be the only reason for me to want to do that, thus keeping it integrated with the log.

73 de,

Brad, N8GLS

K6FW
#13 Posted : Monday, June 15, 2015 1:32:13 AM(UTC)
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Dennis,

How is the fix coming along? I am working more stations on the satellites that are positioned on grid lines and confirming using LOTW. I can't imagine it is a big task for Logic to accept up to four grids per record. Can you please let me know when you will have a patch uploaded? Logic is the most powerful logging database on the market and this will only improve the product. Thanks, Frank K6FW
WN4AZY
#14 Posted : Thursday, June 18, 2015 8:27:35 AM(UTC)
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I got it to handle multiple grid squares, but now CQ Field is broken. Continuing to work on it.

73,

Dennis
WN4AZY
#15 Posted : Monday, June 22, 2015 11:34:42 AM(UTC)
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Got it working here. Will be ready soon. There are some other things I am working on, but my ago ahead and release what I have.

73,

DH
WN4AZY
#16 Posted : Tuesday, June 30, 2015 8:23:41 AM(UTC)
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Ok, here it is! There is some other stuff in progress, so consider this a beta release. Also, the under-hood changes to LOGic were quite significant. I tested it, but would feel better if it had more usage before I release it officially.

This change is not specific to grid squares. It is now theoretically possible to set LOGic up to track multiple values for any award. States or even DXCC countries for example.

To track multiple grid squares with this release, some setup will be required. Perform the following steps:

*Make a backup. Copy your whole LOGic folder.

*Install this update.

*Go to tools/misc utilities/change size of log fields. Make the GRID field bigger. To store four 4-character grids, you will need 19 characters. If you want to store four 6-character grid squares, you will need 27 characters. I don't know that anyone would want to do that, but if you do....

*Go to Tools/Setup/Log Fields and navigate to GRID. On the Field Info page, look for the new DELIMITER FOR MULTIPLE AWARD VALUES. Enter a comma. This field will be moving to the Awards tab.

*Navigate to the CQFIELD field. Change CALCULATED FIELD EXPRESSION to

LEFTDELIM(GRID, 2, ",")

*Navigate to the FFMA field. Change CALCULATED FIELD EXPRESSION to

LEFTDELIM(GRID, 4, ",")


That should do it!

Tnx & 73,

Dennis WN4AZY
File Attachment(s):
logic9update73.exe (3,340kb) downloaded 4 time(s).
n8gls
#17 Posted : Thursday, July 23, 2015 10:36:33 PM(UTC)
bwilliams

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Dennis,

Just a brief report on v73. Seems ok. Used in the CQWW Vhf contest for a short time, so the contesting part of LOGic works as well as the controls for rig, rotor, and the spot log functions fine. I logged several qso's simulating a multi-grid station, they logged fine and the award progress screen actually listed the new grids. The AWARD report (sub-category GRID) however only shows a single entry for the first of the multiple grids and the tally also only includes the first of the multiple grids, so its not displaying or counting the second, third or forth grid worked. Likewise the contest scoring is only counting the first grid.

All in all for the major change this was all seems to function fine. I'll be playing more this weekend and let you know of anything else.

Thanks for the work on this one !!

Brad, N8GLS





WN4AZY
#18 Posted : Thursday, July 23, 2015 11:08:10 PM(UTC)
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Thanks for the report. I forgot that the grid squares could affect contest scoring ... :-( Back to the drawing board.

73,

Dennis
n8gls
#19 Posted : Friday, July 24, 2015 3:42:47 PM(UTC)
bwilliams

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Ha,

I used to work on a drawing board....going back to one wouldn't be fun.

I look at it differently, you didn't forget, you just did the important part first.

HI HI...

Brad, N8GLS
K6FW
#20 Posted : Saturday, February 11, 2017 10:47:19 PM(UTC)
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I love the ability to be able to enter multiple grid squares in the grid field. Thank you very much.

One glitch is being able to find a record using the second, third or fourth grid entered into the grid field.

All grids entered show in the progress chart. If the grid in the progress chart is the first one in the field then when you click on the box the corresponding record is displayed. If the grid in the progress chart is the second, third or fourth grid entered into the field then when you click on the progress chart the corresponding record is not retrieved. If you use the search filter and look for the second, third or fourth grid entered into the field no records are returned.

This makes it impossible to find the QSO corresponding to the grid field unless it is the first grid entered into the field.

Hope the fix is easy.

Thank you,

Frank
K6FW
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