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Forum use - support as compared to discussion
vk4iu
#1 Posted : Monday, February 18, 2013 12:11:54 AM(UTC)
VK4IU

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Hi Dennis,

You will have noticed I have tried to answer a few "questions" in the forum. My input usually results in private emails - as compared to an open discussion for the benefit of all members of the forum who use Logic.

My feeling ...

... many see the Forum as simply for "support" - not a place where they can get "help".

"support" that which one gets only from a supplier.
"help" that which one can get from a user of the product, or as a last resort, from the supplier.

That is, despite your note in the Welcome message, most expect that YOU will be answering each and every item on the entire forum.

I went back to the Logic "reflectors" just to see if anything was being posted on them. The QTH reflector is still alive - just. I could not find the one on Yahoo.

I suggest - a rearrangement of the "areas" of the forum. Create an area, and sub forums, that are specifically for "customer discussions", customers helping customers, and an area that is specifically for "issues" with the product - the stuff only you can answer.

These days I have far more time to spend on amateur radio, and would love to contribute more. I favour open discussion, on a forum such as this, where ALL can benefit from a discussion, not just the two parties exchanging messages.

Your goals may be completely different.

Logic is a great product. Much better at most things than any of the other logging programs I have "purchased" and discarded. For everyone's benefit, I would love to see more energy between members of the Logic community.

Peter VK4IU
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WN4AZY
#2 Posted : Tuesday, February 19, 2013 8:19:02 AM(UTC)
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Hi Peter--

I couldn't agree more -- this forum was set up with the long-term goal of providing community support, or "help" as you say -- to free my time up for development. On most software I use -- mainly development tools, but also end-user software such as video processing software and the support for this forum software in fact -- is provided by other users.

That said, while it would be nice if this forum solved all my tech support issues :-) if there is a bug, insufficient documentation, etc. it is my responsibility to fix it. I generally answer questions here before I answer emails to encourage people to use it. It is nice to have tech support here for me rather than email -- everything is in one place including files exchanged, and if more than one person is having the same problem, the forum format really makes sense.

Furthermore, it is a resource for me in handling email and phone support -- which is still the bulk of our support efforts. Most phone calls or emails result in either a reference to the manual or help, or link to this forum.

While I am not as prompt as I would like, I am generally pretty good at answering posts, limiting the time others have to respond. That doesn't mean that I am discouraging community participation at all. I really appreciate what you are doing, and welcome input on how to get more community involvement. So by all means, if anyone sees a post where they can contribute, be it an answer to a question or a request for clarification, or just "yeah, I was wondering about that too...", please post!

I will think about your suggestion:

Quote:
I suggest - a rearrangement of the "areas" of the forum. Create an area, and sub forums, that are specifically for "customer discussions", customers helping customers, and an area that is specifically for "issues" with the product - the stuff only you can answer.


I have shied away from having forums that limit who can post there. Even the FAQ section can be posted to by anyone. The idea is to encourage participation, but maybe I am shooting myself in the foot. Also, I am concerned that a lot of the time it won't be clear if it is "help" that is needed or if an "issue" exists.

(BTW, I was concerned that things might get out of hand and that people would spend a lot of time bad-mouthing our products with no constructive end in mind. I am pleasantly surprised that there has not been one incident of that yet. I thank everyone for that. The criticism we have received is well-deserved and appreciated. LOGic is better and getting better because of it.)

At the very least, I will start some new sections for general discussion. On the technical side I have some material on LED flashlights that Fe cut from the last LOGic Lines that I could contribute. I also replaced some fluorescent tubes with LED. And not just technical stuff. Anything people want to talk about (except for religion and politics that don't affect ham radio hihi).

I can also compose an email to send to everyone. Suggestions are welcome for the content of this email.

Also, it is obvious that we need to market this forum differently, so input on that is welcome.

Peter, I really appreciate your help and of course that of everyone else who has contributed. I apologize if I have done anything to indicate otherwise.

Tnx & 73,

Dennis
WN4AZY
#3 Posted : Tuesday, February 19, 2013 8:37:56 AM(UTC)
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Quote:
You will have noticed I have tried to answer a few "questions" in the forum. My input usually results in private emails - as compared to an open discussion for the benefit of all members of the forum who use Logic.


This is certainly something that can be addressed in our email. I will make an "official" request to keep discussions public and not bother those who help with email under normal circumstances. Reply on the forum please.

And, unless there is something of a sensitive nature, fee free to ask people to plsease respond on the forum.

73,

DH
vk4iu
#4 Posted : Tuesday, February 19, 2013 11:23:46 PM(UTC)
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G'Day,

I am glad we are on a similar wavelength. I was concerned I was "alone".

Thinking of an email ... it seems to me that a few factors are at play ...

While many spent years learning their profession, they think it takes a week at most to "learn computers" - and expect to "learn Logic" in an hour or two at most.

Some are a little afraid to ask for "help" in the open - they worry about exposing their lack of experience in public.

The old saying that "their are no dumb questions, only dumb answers" is unknown to many.

And lastly, few realise that if they need to ask the question, there is guaranteed to be a few others who want the answer, but are reluctant to ask the question.

So ... an email should especially stress the resources for the very new to Logic; those new to a forum, as compared to an email list; those having trouble getting beyond the log form; and the rewards available for sharing their experience. It should also stress the last point above. That knowledge about computers/Logic is an "ongoing construction", that requires one to acquire a little knowledge regularly, and the best place for that is amongst like minded individuals.

I have read several comments on the Logic reflector that they understood "email reflectors" but they did not like the forum style.

So, beyond the email, but also needed, is guidance on using the forum - knowing how to "watch a topic". Perhaps how to use an RSS feed. I suggest when someone registers on the forum you automatically set them up to "watch" FAQ. That way the forum "comes to them" rather than have them chase the forum. The FAQ should then provide a good way to consolidate learning and understanding.

Do you need someone to help in managing the forum?

Peter VK4IU




Peter VK4IU
You can help by posting images of any errors and including your Logic version.
vk4iu
#5 Posted : Saturday, February 23, 2013 5:51:27 AM(UTC)
VK4IU

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G'Day,

While mowing today I had more thoughts about your email to members.

A forum is really a place where people gather to meet, to talk, to exchange ideas. A forum just does not work if everybody, logs in, checks the messages, and logs out. Or only ever comes to the "forum" to report a bug. Which seems to be what is happening at the moment - perhaps not all the time, but certainly it is when I am using the system.

We need to encourage members to log in to the forum as part of using Logic. That is, starting Logic, implies, logging into the forum. Then it will be a tool while using Logic, to use the "shoutbox", to a create topics asking questions as needed.

One problem that does not help the forum, is that many novices to computers and Logic, tend to do one thing at a time. They are either sending emails, or using Logic, or browsing the web, as compared to having all that running at the same time and switching between programs. The more advanced are certainly comfortable with multiple programs, and lots of browsers and tabs open at the same time.

We need information on the forum to help the less experience with PCs in general.

If we can get them more using the forum at the same time, the interaction will naturally grow.

Peter VK4IU
Peter VK4IU
You can help by posting images of any errors and including your Logic version.
WN4AZY
#6 Posted : Tuesday, February 26, 2013 10:26:40 AM(UTC)
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Ok, I will start a GENERAL DISCUSSION Section to encourage more interaction. Suggested forums? General Computer and Windows discussion for sure!

73,

DH
vk4iu
#7 Posted : Tuesday, February 26, 2013 6:12:19 PM(UTC)
VK4IU

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G'Day,

This is a difficult area. Everyone has a different take on how to structure the material. The following is made on the basis that a direction in which to head, is a guide for change over time.

I'd like to see the discussions under support become areas within "The Logic Forum", and the "support" area simplified. Also the Logic Update area should be split into "announcement" and "discussion" about the release.

Something like the following.

Peter VK4IU

The Logic Forum by PDA

Welcome
Read this first. Here you will find our objectives in creating this forum.

How to use the forum.
Read this before posting. Here you will find material to enhance your contributions to the forum.

The Logic Forum
Here is the actual Logic members forum. Here you will find discussions about Logic and how to enhance your use of Logic for your QSO logging activities. Here also are discussions about using your PC.

Logging QSOs
Discussed here is how to log QSOs.
Contesting
How to operate a contest using Logic.
Reports
Discussed here is how to print, modify, and create reports.

etc etc

About your PC
About Windows
Logic Updates
Discuss here any issues you had applying the official Logic Updates.

Logic support
Report here things you suspect may be bugs in the software.

How to recognise a bug (Read only for members)
How to report a bug (Read only for members)
Suspected bugs
Report bugs here
Accepted bug list (Read only for members)
Here is a list of bugs to be corrected.
Feature requests
Suggest here changes to Logic you would like to see.

Updates to Logic
Listed here are the formal updates to the Logic software. (read only for members)

Peter VK4IU
You can help by posting images of any errors and including your Logic version.
1 user thanked vk4iu for this useful post.
WN4AZY on 2/28/2013(UTC)
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